Bearing surface has less than dick to do with stability. projectile LENGTH is the factor and I'm fairly certain,that 88's is longer than a 75 or 80 ELD.(grin)d2junky said:
Gross RPM is the whole enchilada and a 1-8" 22-250AI or Kreedmire,just might pull it off...though barely..................
I shot a few 88s in my 8 twist 22-250ai this evening. 38 grains of rl17. Didn't put them over the chrono as it was about dark but they shot a 5 shot group just over 1" with no pressure signs and nice round holes. I'll put them over the chrono and play with the charge and see what happens.
Prolly have a 75 A-Max or two kicking around,myself.
I tend to look at things objectively and let's say a 75 grainer has a 250fps velocity headstart,over an 88 ELD. The 88 gets the advantage in wind drift,by the 100yd line. At 475yds,it gets the impact velocity advantage too and just like wind...it never loses the lead once attained.
Flipside being,the 75 ELD is enough more Slickery,that wind is same/same until the 300yd line. The velocity handoff,don't happen until the 700yd line and yes of course I'm talking A-Max speed/atmosphere in extrapolation. So the 88 shines brighter over the A-Max and will of course shadow the 75 ELD too...but a fair distance further down the road. Such things rate a thunk,as they tend to have an influence upon actuality...which do tend to happen.(grin)
I still say that THE Greasiest/Sneakiest Sleeper Sonofabitch,is a 20" 22 Grendel squirtin' 75 ELD Smooches at 3100fps plus.
Did I throw my 88's offa fucking cliff today?
Nope....................(grin)
I tend to look at things objectively and let's say a 75 grainer has a 250fps velocity headstart,over an 88 ELD. The 88 gets the advantage in wind drift,by the 100yd line. At 475yds,it gets the impact velocity advantage too and just like wind...it never loses the lead once attained.
Flipside being,the 75 ELD is enough more Slickery,that wind is same/same until the 300yd line. The velocity handoff,don't happen until the 700yd line and yes of course I'm talking A-Max speed/atmosphere in extrapolation. So the 88 shines brighter over the A-Max and will of course shadow the 75 ELD too...but a fair distance further down the road. Such things rate a thunk,as they tend to have an influence upon actuality...which do tend to happen.(grin)
I still say that THE Greasiest/Sneakiest Sleeper Sonofabitch,is a 20" 22 Grendel squirtin' 75 ELD Smooches at 3100fps plus.
Did I throw my 88's offa fucking cliff today?
Nope....................(grin)
Why?Big Stick said:
That round with 80 ELD's at 2850-2900 or the 88 at a kunt hair less, & fitting a mag at 2.310 should be good.
Might not get a smooch, but that's not the end of the world.
MM
Mechanically,The Valgina pales to the Grendel in like diameter(s),due COAL and case capacity. Then there's the fact,tThat Grendel brass is of greater quality/consistency too.
The upside to the Grendel,is that there is no downside...while The Valgina connects no dots.
The 22 Nosler was "great" for 15 minutes too...............(grin)
The upside to the Grendel,is that there is no downside...while The Valgina connects no dots.
The 22 Nosler was "great" for 15 minutes too...............(grin)
Laughin' here..............that's gotta be a new classic if ever there was one.Big Stick said:
Starline is now making brass for the Valgina & it's usually good; in addition, the 6.8 case has a smaller head so should be able to push it harder than the Grendel w/o the possibility of tearing up a bolt lug.
I'll wait a while & see; did you get the 22 Grendel barrel from Harrison?
At any rate, not a big deal to change barrels & bolts either way.
MM
So with the advent of the 22 Grendel and the 22 Creed has the 223AI been put out to pasture? Are you running both varieties in ARs and bolts?
The 223AI's Swan Song remains and that is logistics like no other...so by default,it literally has no equal. Nice to have 30K pieces of brass on hand,for rainy days.(grin)
The 22 and 243 Grendel are easily the best pitch,when talking Krunchenticker mag confines. The 223/223AI are NO joy there,nor close...otherwise them constants,would simply remain constant.
As .473" boltface .224's go,the Kreedmire makes alotta sense and much comes to it easily,due Alpha brass alone. It's more than a wee bit of capacity/performance and were I to have only (1) 22 Centerfire,it wouldn't be it(insert 223AI there instead). Why the fuck would a guy build a 22-250AI or similar,with Alpha 22 Kreed brass on shelves?!?(grin)
30+ years ago,it were a different story and it's tough to lament great things only getting better. As a default EVERYTHING,the 223/223AI is King,by lightyears,in both Turnbolts and Self Shuckers. For more niche pursuits,the Grendel spawn and Kreedmire,are easy to be enthralled with.
A 1-7" 223AI,remains a Giant Killer and 88's ain't gonna hurt production there.....................
The 22 and 243 Grendel are easily the best pitch,when talking Krunchenticker mag confines. The 223/223AI are NO joy there,nor close...otherwise them constants,would simply remain constant.
As .473" boltface .224's go,the Kreedmire makes alotta sense and much comes to it easily,due Alpha brass alone. It's more than a wee bit of capacity/performance and were I to have only (1) 22 Centerfire,it wouldn't be it(insert 223AI there instead). Why the fuck would a guy build a 22-250AI or similar,with Alpha 22 Kreed brass on shelves?!?(grin)
30+ years ago,it were a different story and it's tough to lament great things only getting better. As a default EVERYTHING,the 223/223AI is King,by lightyears,in both Turnbolts and Self Shuckers. For more niche pursuits,the Grendel spawn and Kreedmire,are easy to be enthralled with.
A 1-7" 223AI,remains a Giant Killer and 88's ain't gonna hurt production there.....................
You've become a big fan of the 6x45 it looks like. What got you started on that and how come not the AI version, especially with all the 223ai brass you've got ready to neck up?
The 6x45 is forgiving,because you can't drive the highest BC's fast enough,to hurt themselves,in regards to terminal effects.
There's a fair amount of difference in projectile mass,betwixt a 223 and 6x45. Knowing that going in,it's gonna take greater leaps and bounds in powder capacity,to accelerate the greater bore diameter meaningfully. The 223AI's projectile mass,responds well to said capacity gains,though the 105/8's behave differently. In .243" bore sizing on a .378" boltface,I'm more than happy to let the boolits do the work.
As to moving 40-degree shoulders/necks around...I've never been a fan of same and would rather form Virgins,than go that route.
I'm at ease in letting others with greater capacity offerings and more alluring headstamps,have the first poke,then simply clean house with an itty-bitty 18" 270 and 105's.
Seen it.(grin)
LOTS.................
There's a fair amount of difference in projectile mass,betwixt a 223 and 6x45. Knowing that going in,it's gonna take greater leaps and bounds in powder capacity,to accelerate the greater bore diameter meaningfully. The 223AI's projectile mass,responds well to said capacity gains,though the 105/8's behave differently. In .243" bore sizing on a .378" boltface,I'm more than happy to let the boolits do the work.
As to moving 40-degree shoulders/necks around...I've never been a fan of same and would rather form Virgins,than go that route.
I'm at ease in letting others with greater capacity offerings and more alluring headstamps,have the first poke,then simply clean house with an itty-bitty 18" 270 and 105's.
Seen it.(grin)
LOTS.................
No exposure to the 22 Kreed yet, but since the 6.5 requires a large frame Krunchenticker, I am figuring that the 22 will as well, is that true North or am I going in the wrong direction?Big Stick said:
MM
Thinking of trying a box in my 8” twist SAAMI 22-250. Toyed with the notion of rchambering same barrel to Creedmoor but it shoots so danged good as is that I’m just gonna leave it be.Big Stick said:
John
I’m just a little over 2000’ so I suspect its pretty iffy, but might be worth looking into...
John
John
They shine in 22 Speedmire with a 3-grooved 1-8" at 23".
Soooooooooooo VERY fucking nice,to simply headspace a spout to KILLER brass,kiss,find pressure and rock on. 3225fps was good enough for me and it only took me (3) shots for load development,with said spout.
Mass produced,grabbed a zero and it's a fucking hammer....................
Soooooooooooo VERY fucking nice,to simply headspace a spout to KILLER brass,kiss,find pressure and rock on. 3225fps was good enough for me and it only took me (3) shots for load development,with said spout.
Mass produced,grabbed a zero and it's a fucking hammer....................
I've only got a coupla 6 Kreedmire's and a coupla 6.5 Kreedmire's. I'd be impressed to meet someone,that wouldn't shoot the Speedmire more than both,added together.(grin)
Prolly some 2B's and Sako Hunters kickin' around too.......................
Prolly some 2B's and Sako Hunters kickin' around too.......................
Funny you should ask.
I had a 1-7" Shilen on order through NSS I was gonna have them custom throat a .223AI. Sent dummies and everything.
Bugholes doesn't have a reamer as I thought about going that route as well.
James sent reamer prints and Shilen has a 22br for Lapua brass so now I'm trying to figure dies as Forster's aren't available anywhere and won't hone them to .247" anyways.
Need to make some dummies and my Dasher dies won't do the whole neck.
Looking like I'm headed to Redding form/trim die and FL Type S and will use the Dasher seater for now.
I had a 1-7" Shilen on order through NSS I was gonna have them custom throat a .223AI. Sent dummies and everything.
Bugholes doesn't have a reamer as I thought about going that route as well.
James sent reamer prints and Shilen has a 22br for Lapua brass so now I'm trying to figure dies as Forster's aren't available anywhere and won't hone them to .247" anyways.
Need to make some dummies and my Dasher dies won't do the whole neck.
Looking like I'm headed to Redding form/trim die and FL Type S and will use the Dasher seater for now.
Cuando, what freebore will yours have and do you remember the neck diameter?
I talked to Pac-Nor about a prefit 22 BR. They had several different reamers, but their no-turn reamer was a .254 neck with .025" freebore. Does that sound about right? They also said they would throat to a dummy round.
I talked to Pac-Nor about a prefit 22 BR. They had several different reamers, but their no-turn reamer was a .254 neck with .025" freebore. Does that sound about right? They also said they would throat to a dummy round.
88's,are the only bullet I've shot in it.
Think gross RPM,rather than solely twist rate. I'm shooting them at 3225fps in Alpha 224 Kreedmire hulls and were I going Subsonic,it would assuredly take more twist,to match their Gross RPM in the 8".
A 1-8" 223,is looking for trouble with 88's in my atmosphere...not so in Speedmire. Impetus is/was,to be nice to jackets,in a case of that capacity at Supersonic speeds.
Mighta started a Thread on it.................(grin)
Think gross RPM,rather than solely twist rate. I'm shooting them at 3225fps in Alpha 224 Kreedmire hulls and were I going Subsonic,it would assuredly take more twist,to match their Gross RPM in the 8".
A 1-8" 223,is looking for trouble with 88's in my atmosphere...not so in Speedmire. Impetus is/was,to be nice to jackets,in a case of that capacity at Supersonic speeds.
Mighta started a Thread on it.................(grin)
Brett,
No idea on fb. I'll send dummies and they'll throat and change neck dimensions.
I think there reamer is .252" and loaded round is .2513" so I was thinking I'd have them do .253 or .254"
I had them do me up a 6 Dasher last year and it seriously hammers.
Ended up with an extra FL type S if you need one.
Shoot me a pm if you want reamer prints.
No idea on fb. I'll send dummies and they'll throat and change neck dimensions.
I think there reamer is .252" and loaded round is .2513" so I was thinking I'd have them do .253 or .254"
I had them do me up a 6 Dasher last year and it seriously hammers.
Ended up with an extra FL type S if you need one.
Shoot me a pm if you want reamer prints.
Wondered if you guys can help me make a decision on a new build.
Have a Howa 1500 SA here that’s barreled in 223 Rem.
Looking to rebarrel but not keen on changing bolt face, mag box etc.
Rifle will be a fun gun for me and the kids, hitting steel but also knocking off game from foxes up to the odd pig.
I figure to boil the choice down to two - either a 223AI in a 7 twist for the 88 ELD (and similar) or a 6x45 in 7 or 8 twist sending the 105 Hdy BTHP.
What say ye?
I wish to keep bbl length to 20” - what sort of velocities can I expect at that length?
The 223AI as proposed might have the edge over distance, but its the prospect of a cranky boar up against a 105 BTHP that has me inclined in that direction.
Have a Howa 1500 SA here that’s barreled in 223 Rem.
Looking to rebarrel but not keen on changing bolt face, mag box etc.
Rifle will be a fun gun for me and the kids, hitting steel but also knocking off game from foxes up to the odd pig.
I figure to boil the choice down to two - either a 223AI in a 7 twist for the 88 ELD (and similar) or a 6x45 in 7 or 8 twist sending the 105 Hdy BTHP.
What say ye?
I wish to keep bbl length to 20” - what sort of velocities can I expect at that length?
The 223AI as proposed might have the edge over distance, but its the prospect of a cranky boar up against a 105 BTHP that has me inclined in that direction.
223 is always the right answer...if it'll do what you want. Ever shoot a pig with a 75? The 88 could be better with more mass and a slightly lower velocity - at least in the sense of velocity stressing a bullet. You know what the BC will do if you're shooting long.
Say it all goes south - you're stuck with a fast-twist 223AI. How is that not a great way to "lose"?
[Reminds me I need to go hammer 100 rounds down the factory tube of my Montana 223. I can't kill the damn thing; if I knew it was going to live this long I'd of pulled it new...]
Say it all goes south - you're stuck with a fast-twist 223AI. How is that not a great way to "lose"?
[Reminds me I need to go hammer 100 rounds down the factory tube of my Montana 223. I can't kill the damn thing; if I knew it was going to live this long I'd of pulled it new...]
I’ve used the 75g BTHP on pigs and it’s bloody good for a small pill. Never the 75g ELD though.
How much of a velocity hit will I take in that chambering going from 75 to 88?
How much of a velocity hit will I take in that chambering going from 75 to 88?
I’d be quite content with 2700+ from the 88s out of a 223AI, assuming a 20” bbl. Anything more would be a bonus.
As said above, worst case is I end up with a fast twist 223AI which probably isn’t the worst way to fly.
Thanks chaps.
As said above, worst case is I end up with a fast twist 223AI which probably isn’t the worst way to fly.
Thanks chaps.
I’m trying to decide whether to kill with a .223ai/75amax, or 7-08/162amax for muley season. Opens in about a week. Coin toss maybe.