data-csrf="1711661768,45c3215128001a1ee40be1a2e7742013" RAR 223 | As Real As It Gets

RAR 223

fogswamp

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2007
583
1
rollin factory fodder and treating it like a barfly.....I'm impressed, just ordered a wrong handed one....to compliment mamas. Thoughts? Who all is driving one?
 

longdog

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Nov 16, 2014
119
0
I've spent a lot more, to get a lot less. No complaints, and as accurate as anything out there.
 

longdog

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2014
119
0
62 tsx and 69 smk work well. I don't think you can go much longer without some sort of mag modification.
 

Canazes9

Active member
Jan 25, 2013
42
0
Louisiana
I have one of Chaz's (AKA Cotis) mag mods, works great.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8949238/Latest_on_Ruger_American_223_m

Waiting on the rest I ordered. I wouldn't screw around if you think you want some - when he's done, that will probably be all that are made....

David
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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fogswamp said:
Think I can do enough with vanilla 223 and a 62x........we shall see.
Greasy way,to yield a Dirty Duty Sleeper...on the sly.

I've 4000+ 75A-Max on hand,but don't quite have 4000 62X's and the "problem" is,I shoot a smidge..................(grin)
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
0
Oregon
I bought a RAR 223 in SS. Ordered 4 molded parts from Chaz, but might fill the OEM with cookie dough, pin, and mill in the meantime. 10-lbs of H335, 1000 Rem hulls, and 600 Amaxes... to get started with this rifle. 10X FF on top.
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
0
Oregon
Yanked the trigger spring and the pull went from god awful heavy to pretty dang nice. I didn't see any reset or safety issues running sans-spring but added a lightweight spring... just strong enough to push the trigger forward.

I thought MKII triggers were easy to work on...

OEM spring below, wimp spring above:



 

cwh

Administrator
Nov 18, 2007
4,574
99
Anchorage
Since I'm sure you are thinking about it: What's involved in removing the retard lever on the trigger?
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
Barrel channel and barrel were not co-linear so the stock was cleaned up for a full float. Bolt lift was also hard near top of stroke due to a burr in bolt cam. Cleaned that up and it cycles a little better.

I'll probably get some stainless 1/4-28 SHCS and call it good for now. Still liking that trigger even with the gay blade.

Need to mount the 10x MQ and pre-roll a handful of test loads...
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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Pop out the pin and toss the fucking lever,spring and pin in the garbage can.

Easy to get 'em under 2 pounds...............

 

shortactionsmoke

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
311
0
Grindstone Hill
For conversation, I bought the injection machine, mold, etc from cotis. Check went in the mail yesterday. I have a busy January at the shows, but parts will fly out the door in February.

They do work and the RAR is one of my favorite toys....

Seated at 2.39"



And they shoot

 

Dude270

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2014
971
73
I picked up 3 mag extensions from cotis on his first run.
Before I even bought a RAR.
I go to pick up my stainless RAR friday, looking forward to working with it, especially glad to see you guys have the trigger figured out.

SAS, Glad to see you got cotis's equipment, are you gonna turn them out in pretty large numbers?

Who is gonna be the first to figure out if a AI will fly in a RAR?
 

shortactionsmoke

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
311
0
Grindstone Hill
We're going turn out as many as we can. Dad's retired and we're going to set up shop in his garage. He's pretty handy too....

I expect he'll do 25-50 a day until orders get caught up, then maybe just a few batches per week as demand dictates.

I'm pondering shipping entire mags instead of just extensions. I'd really like to assemble and test function before they ship out. Nothing would suck more than to ship a bunch of crap and then guys have issues...
 

shortactionsmoke

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
311
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Grindstone Hill
You'll have fun with it. I have the full size, my son has a compact. I'd like,e to throw together a "tweener" and punch it. I'm thinking about chopping the barrel to 20" and losing a 1/2" or so on the LOP.
 

Dude270

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2014
971
73
I bought a fullsize just because I need the longer LOP and figured it would be cheaper to chop off some barrel than to buy a longer stock. If I like mine I am thinking of cutting the pipe to 20"

Also might pick up a compact for my kid, he is only 4 but fuck it, it will be there when he is ready
 

Dude270

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2014
971
73
Glad to hear you and your Pops are gonna crank them out SAS, there would have to be a hell of a market for them if people knew they were out there. Didn't I hear on the 'Fire you took over as GM of a pretty big gun shop? Do you plan on selling some in there?

You might be right about selling whole mags just to avoid problems with functionality.

I may need some pointers on installing mine when I finally pick up my rifle
 

Horse1

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2007
2,962
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In the vicinity of dandihood
shortactionsmoke said:
Yep on the shop, on both counts. I'll be glad to offer pointers.
Can you get us a special make up Kimber Montanas in 22LR, 22mag, and 17HMR? Tube fed, up the rear while you're at it. No frickin port-side scallop for loading either.
 

shortactionsmoke

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
311
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Grindstone Hill
No deposits needed yet. It has approval all the way through sales. It's in engineering for design now. I'll let everybody know as soon as it's a go...

I guess I better get with the man and pay some advertising on here too. I need to see how he wants me to organize stuff. I have lots of plans...
 

Horse1

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Dec 31, 2007
2,962
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In the vicinity of dandihood
shortactionsmoke said:
I guess I better get with the man and pay some advertising on here too. I need to see how he wants me to organize stuff. I have lots of plans...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if we get input as well as 1st shot @ special make up stuff, that'll be payment enough.
 

shortactionsmoke

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
311
0
Grindstone Hill
Input drives the buys, so I'll be asking regularly.

I'll know more after SHOT too. The big guys have big commitments on special runs. Some are 500, some 1000 and some may do as few as 20-25.

Ruger did a special run of American Rimfire Predators for a distributor. They did 500 each of 22lr and 22 magnum. It's not even on Ruger's site as a distributor exclusive. I bought a bunch of each and they're selling well without advertising.

Same green color on the stock as the centerfire Predator, no sights, high comb, tactical bolt handle, rail on top, 18" threaded heavier contour barrel....and I got one for Christmas from the wife!

Stuff like that needs to be communicated with you guys too...
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
SAS,

Did you inherit Cotis' list of orders to fill along with the gear or are you going to sell strictly thru the shop? I've got 3 ordered thru him but looks like you're the man now.

Single loading a RAR sucks!

Jason
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
fogswamp said:
Hey 4th pt, you mess with them clips yet??
Not yet. Figured I'd wait for Cotis or SAS now. But if it'll be awhile with the transition I might try filling and milling.
 

Dude270

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2014
971
73
Picked up my RAR stainless 223 today.
Added the cotis mag extension and took the gay blade out of the trigger and added a lighter trigger spring while I was at it.
Trigger breaks at about 2.5 lbs now and 75 maxs are kissing with room to spare in the mag.

I will hold back judgement until I shoot it tomorrow but its looking like a hell of a rig for 410 bucks.
 

MontanaMarine

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2007
677
0
Canyon Ferry, MT
I went for a Predator 223 early, not expecting southpaw 223s anytime soon....

Mine is burping 40gr VMax at 2700 fps via Unique. Prairie dogs at 200-ish yards were hating it last summer.

Did a few loads with 50gr VMax, 53gr VMax, and 75gr BTHP. All were under moa with full cases of W748.

I recently mounted a 10X Bushnell in Burris Signature rings with the +/- 20 inserts. First three shots with the 40gr VMax and Unique,

 

MontanaMarine

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2007
677
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Canyon Ferry, MT
No can.

The loads just shoots. I was looking for something mild along the lines of 22 Hornet ballistics.

First time I tried it I clover-leafed three at 100. Thought it must have been a lucky group. But it just stacks them in there time after time if the wind is mild.

I have the OAL at 2.20", CCI 400 primer. Various once-fired milsurp brass. I size it with a Redding body die and a Lee collet die for the first go, then just the neck die for subsequent reloads.
 

MontanaMarine

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2007
677
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Canyon Ferry, MT
I know the 75 Amax is pretty much the Gold Standard of .224". I do have some of the 75gr BTHP on the bench, but will get some of the Amax too for going long.

Main reason I went with a soft 40 gr for the prairie dogs was to minimize ricochets (range cattle).
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
Had some problems on the maiden voyage with COAL set for a kiss. Took the 9v scale and handpress to the country club for some on-the-spot load work. Nothing at 0.015", but seems to like 0.030" off. Never tried a hard jam.

Also ditched the OEM bases and got extruded Warne steel bases and Maxima Lows until I find something better. Warne bases are a hair thinner, and match the receiver much better than the OEM. Still need a fix for the chin-weld but overall can't complain.

Didn't spend much time at 100y before going to 500y. Spotting shots thru the 10x is no problem at 500. Heck of a rig for the bucks spent.

I "Have Seen the Light" regarding 8-twist 223 and the 75 AMAX. Should have done this a longtime ago :grin:



 

ridgeline

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2009
662
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australia
That'll work!!! there ain't much you cant do with an 8 twist 223 flingin' them fuckin SINISTER 75s... Can you hunt Big Game in Oregon with a 22 C/F ???

Strong rumour round these parts is that Cans may once again be legal, if that's the case I will run a suppressed RAR 8T 223...

This Was the latest victim of a 75 AMAX via my 8 Twist 223AI freezer pleaser Spike Red deer 236 yards....

 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Deer, bear, cougar, and antelope are all legal with 22 centerfire in Oregon.

Love that color-mix on that stock by the way!
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Forgot to look for o-rings for the windage knob, but got some stainless action screws at the hardware store... 1/4"-28 x 3/4" SHCS.

Used a heat-gun to straighten the fore-end and flare the barrel channel, then sanded a slight bevel. It was tight on the port-side.

Filled the fore-end with cookie dough but ran out of my beloved Loc-Tite and had to use Oatey for the distal end. Made each compartment spill into the next, and overlapped. Started proximal and worked my way out. Still floated, and I don't mind the extra weight but weight weenies beware. The stock is still weak near the action but the fore-end is much stiffer laterally. Upward pressure will still make contact but not on a rest/bags.

Cookie dough is plenty tough and adheres well but need to beat on it to see if it stays put.







 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
I hate plywood with a passion... but must admit that I am fond of that Frankendork for the 10/22, but with a layer of cookie dough.

I may still go plywood, but it only takes one stick of dough to fix the limp OEM stock.

Disclosure... I dig the 223 and 75 AMAX. The RAR is pretty cool, but I'm already veering towards Montucky... and think I'll be getting back into the gasser game so this RAR might be looking for a new home.
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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What I like about plywood,is that it ain't living. It sculpts easily and one can glove fit ergo's,pinpoint balance and easily have his way.

I still would like to see a Hogue for 'em...............
 

shortactionsmoke

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
311
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Grindstone Hill
Exceptional. No creep or over travel, breaks clean at 2 lbs. I could back it down a little more (says 1.5), but I'm good there.

Installs in 3 minutes on the first try. The next one will go in a matter of seconds. Too simple.
 

Big Stick

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Be curious to gun it alongside an un-bladed/re-sprunged OEM. They ain't creepy and overtravel is a breeze to nip.

I think I'd go Boyds and 75 A-Max's for that loot..............
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Big Stick said:
What I like about plywood,is that it ain't living. It sculpts easily and one can glove fit ergo's,pinpoint balance and easily have his way.

I still would like to see a Hogue for 'em...............
I'd take a Hogue for the RAR.

Old floppy still rubs even with steel putty... the stock is weak near the action and allows the entire forearm to flex. Shot yesterday with the front rest towards the action and away from the forearm tip.

Should be able to see the rub marks in the pics. There's a crescent shape mark were the tip of the forearm rubs across the barrel, and shiny metal along the length of the barrel.

May go plywood after all but wish there were something else available.





 

Big Stick

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For under 100 Clams,Boyds will toss you a platform which will reliably bear fruit. Simple remove the portion(s) of it that you don't want,sculpt in some strongside ergo's and rock the bitch.

Start at the fucking start...........(grin)
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
Klassic, Heritage, or Prarie?

Got any pics of Boyd's stock? Seen some pics with the bolts open and it helps decipher the cheek rest geometry.

I've had a few plywood stocks but one made of Rutland was soft like balsawood. Gave me the creeps and I've been trying to avoid them ever since.
 

Rogue

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Oct 21, 2009
2,549
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Jefferson State
Have a couple boyds, they're very solid but heavy. Have at them with a wood wrasp and you'll have something useful.

Was on a roll a few years back and ground the shit out of a few wood stocks. It ain't tough.
 

Big Stick

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4th_point said:
Klassic, Heritage, or Prarie?

Got any pics of Boyd's stock? Seen some pics with the bolts open and it helps decipher the cheek rest geometry.

I've had a few plywood stocks but one made of Rutland was soft like balsawood. Gave me the creeps and I've been trying to avoid them ever since.
Sadly,I've lotsa plywood handles.

Prairie Hunter................
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
Rogue,

I've hacked away on hickory staves to make stickbows and still have the tools. Laminates should be a piece of cake.

I'm liking the Boyds idea more and more.

J
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Prairie Chicken it is then. I just gotta decide... blonde vs brunette.

She'll probably get rattle-canned anyway...
 

Diamond Dave

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Nov 6, 2013
145
1
Promise Land, AK
What's the skinny on the production of the mag extensions?

Sadly Stick is taking his freebie back..............

Should be on the back order list on the 'fire............
 

shortactionsmoke

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
311
0
Grindstone Hill
I now have the list. I bought the machine from Cotis. I've been traveling to the shows and it may be a few weeks before I start producing more...

Send me a PM with your info. I have a stash...
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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I got caught in the crossfire. Was shooting with Greasestick yesterday and asking him WTF he was going to build next and talking glass...so he mentioned that he had scored a RAR 223 from Karlos,for a glass swap. So I told him "well...that means the CZ is finally fucking your's" and now he can Hum.

Will pare down a laminate,as much as I dare and run it. 6X MQ is on board and I'll go shoot before the game.

So now I gotta unborrow the mag extension,to see WTF in all fairness....................
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
4th_point said:
fogswamp said:
Hey 4th pt, you mess with them clips yet??
Not yet. Figured I'd wait for Cotis or SAS now. But if it'll be awhile with the transition I might try filling and milling.
Cookie dough Fill and Mill while waiting for the Plug & Play from SAS.

My old school flex Dremel took a shit awhile back and I must have misplaced my bits. No end-mills for a quick hack either. I'll get something in the AM to see if this all comes together... or not. Used a 3/8" drill to get started, but that was as far as I could go for now.







 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Local hardware store should have a small router bit. I'll update later tomorrow.

Still looking forward to the Cotis/SAS injection parts though.
 

Big Stick

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Weather has my Mail screwed up,which is a shame...as there's alotta good shit enroute................(grin)
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Apparently we just had one hell of storm down here. They're saying the whole state might slide into the ocean.

Still waiting on my leaker Leica and a new SS 3-9x to replace the first that locked up solid on the mag dial. I was going to trade it in for another 6x MQ, but they said a new 3-9x was already on the way. Knew I shouldn't have deviated from fixed power scopes :grin: Hats off to SWFA though. They are great to deal with.
 

Big Stick

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There's a few 6x MQ's in the crummy,warming up and coffeee is on,so as to load Thermos #2.......................
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Got a 1/4" router bit today and went at it. With all the hacking the cookie dough stayed rock solid. Screwed the pooch during mag disassembly though... should have followed the Cotis instructions. Broke one tab. But she's seam sealed now with 3M emblem glue and is more solid than ever.

Takes 2.45" plus, and feeds great. But it ain't worth the effort. Better to just get the Plug-N-Play from SAS :grin:



 

Big Stick

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Got hung up today gunning my LFB,6BR and Hummer...so didn't RAR that much.

Next R&R I'll flog on it more,in plywood......................
 

Pappy

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I woke up at 01:00 this morning dreaming of a pile of rar 243's, boyd stocks, krylon and camo tape, drill and grinder. could not shake it till i walked out the door.
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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Your parts are timed better than mine,as I'm wheels up this afternoon and all of my shit will arrive this evening...never fucking fails.

Assuming EGW 25MOA 1913 extended rails and Fixed Fuckers,you'll have better than 30 Mils in the bank,on the erector alone.

Be curious to hear about their throats and where the 105 HPBT Hornie kisses at..................
 

Pappy

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All should be there this week, even ordered some super sneaky tape to dress it all up with, pretty sure I have 105 hpbt sitting at home but got enough more coming to last a while. HATE getting home and being 2 blocked by the mail. Not thinking my local is any better than yours in that respect.
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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Been laughing all day,as the skys is blue and the forecast looks like 2wks of straight rain.

While I LOVE the rain...it's gonna tip the OldMan over..............(again)
 

Pappy

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yes, he was musing over diner that he never got out of the house for 2 fucking weeks last R&R, fucking rain anyhow.
 

Pappy

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sure would be nice to find out what it would cost a guy for tooling at Ruger to just have them hammer forge out a bunch of 223 AI and 243 AI tubes. Bet it cant be that bad to buy a mandrel.
 

Big Stick

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I'd punch my Ranch out,but to shorten the throat and set back,would put it under 16" and I don't wanna pin a loudener or cap.

Would love a S/S Compact in 1-8" 6BR!......................
 

Pappy

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Thats what i am talking about, now talk them boys at ruger into making you up some with 243 AI tubes on them and put me down for an even dozen.
 

shortactionsmoke

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Jan 25, 2013
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Grindstone Hill
It fits well. I've not bedded in the blocks, just snugged it up. I'll tackle that later. The barrel floats nicely all the way back. Another thing that sticks out...the mag doesn't rattle around like it does in my factory stocks.

I need to weigh it, but it doesn't feel much heavier. Balance is better.

I'm gonna order one for the compact too.
 

Pappy

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I am going to spec out reamers for the 223AI 243AI and the 22-250AI
as soon as I get home to put some dummy rounds together, get them to the house I will have my buddy open shop and start reaming.
 

ridgeline

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Mar 22, 2009
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australia
Right on SAS !! That's a lotta rifle for very little loot.. Can ya get some pics of before and after bedding the power blocks ???
 

Big Stick

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'Buggy is supposed to be hanging pictures of his Plywood Hummer.

I'll bust his balls and light a fire..............
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
Shot the Prairie Chicken for the first time yesterday, sans bedding to see how it'd do. Upped tension and went back to a kiss. Other than the wild flier in the first target, I think it shows some promise with the first 2 targets. Roughly 1" at 100y for 8-shots. At this point the trigger is the weak link for me.

RAR is now bedded and trigger cleaned up to remove creep. Will confirm zero at 100y and see how it does at distance next time.



 

Big Stick

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Be curious to see how mine do,after I get home this time. Last R&R was a gypp.

Will more than make up for it on this pass..........
 

Rogue

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Oct 21, 2009
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That's pretty cool. Pretty common practice to duct tap sleeping mat foam to get the cheek wield you need. Mat tape works best if you can score some.

Thinking I'm gonna do the same with fiber glass to a stock this summer.
 

Big Stick

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Be curious to whittle on my plywood 223 Ranch handle and see how much weight I can shave.

'Buggy and I are lined up starting this R&R and some shit will get shook out...........
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
In the interest of research, I added one to my cart while ordering bullets at Midsouth. You were right... no creep, no over-travel. Two turns out on the pre-load and I'd be shocked if it pulled over 12 ounces on a scale.

I took the OEM as low as I dare with file and stone but this sucker is slick :grin:

 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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And I was willing to settle for 1.5#.

If I knew how low the Timney went I would have ordered one sooner :grin:
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Brett,

No scale here right now but it feels like a boat anchor. Just fine as a plinker but its not handy-dandy.

I still want a 223 Montana if that tells you anything.

Jason
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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The boat anchor will be slinging 75's all day tomorrow with some greenhorns. I think my press will be getting a workout with this rifle :grin:
 

Big Stick

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Sore to boot. LeeLou had a MUST attend dinner at 7:00PM,or I'd still be casting & glassing.(grin)

Spring can wear a guy out.....................
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
ridgeline said:
4th'

Have you Bedded the Boyd ?? If so you got any Pics ? Inquiring minds gotta know...
Minimal cookie dough to lock the front lug. Then more dough to capture some of the barrel (would normally trim any nubbings but left it here). Rear lug is captured, but allowed to float. Might go back and lock it.

A few chips, probably from too much Bel-ray waterproof grease but there is so much surface area I ain't worried about it. Its solid as a rock :grin:



 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Had to add a washer under the mag catch, and trim the catch too. Simple. The catch and trigger guard look 3D printed but are tough.

The mag stops were more like splinters than stops. Rasped them away and doughed my own in place where I wanted... with less slop.



 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Proof is in the puddin'...

In hindsight, I should have ordered stippling. It was like wrassling a greased piglet on my rain soaked rests :grin:

Still, once figured out, it shot well. Not all groups were as good as below, but when driven repeatably it produced. I can only see it doing better with a little gription added. Thinking grip-tape for now.

 

ridgeline

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Mar 22, 2009
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australia
That dog will hunt! RAR seems like a lotta rifle for the coin and a quick easy way into a 8" twist 223... Word is we get to play with suppressors again later this year when the legislators change the books, That being the case I'll grab one for a canned rifle set up...

Are you runnin' the SAS mag extension ?? Do you know if Horny 75 HPBT will Kiss and still choogle thru the OEM box?? Lookin' for options if I cant get SAS's mag extension...
 

4th_point

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Haven't gotten my SAS mags yet. In the meantime I modified the one that came with the rifle. IIRC, it'll take 2.45". I could mill more material for extra COAL but would need to see where the bolt stop puts the lug to snag the casehead.

Go up to page 9 for details.

Jason

 

ridgeline

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2009
662
7
australia
Thanks 4th'! Kool Modification love the ingenuity, will keep it in mind in lieu of the plug n play... Damned If'n ya wont put the Pillsbury Doughboy out of a job...*grin*
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
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This 223 is going to wear out my press:grin:

Fast-twist 223 bolt action and 75gr AMAX is the shit for LR fun, in volume. Thanks again for the suggestion.
 

Big Stick

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Inletted the stock's mortices deeper,for the supplied lugs and shimmed the mag catch. That got ride height right.





Bulk/Blem 68BTHP Hornie's were wanting to hit below the chamber,with their tips...so I simply hogged out a faux ramp in the 'shank. It shoots 'em STUPID fucking good and I can dig the dope,to 1K anyhow.

Had to relieve the comb's nose,to allow full bolt travel and part of that was a function of digging the lug mortices deeper. Hogged out the offside thumb's resting place,so my Lady Fingers had a place to ride.

All that had shot it before/after,commented upon how trace and impact were MUCH easier to catch,under all circumstances,after the stock swap. Part of that is a function of a leetle extry added weight,but most due to the vastly improved ergo's. Cheekweld is handy.(grin)

It is a SERIOUSLY fucking Bad Bitch now and only needs rattle canned,so as to slip into FULL Fucking Sleeper Mode.

Will hack the fore end shorter,add a more pronounced strongside palmswell and hang the sling stud at the end of the fore end's tip,so it rides more static on the shoulder.

There's (5) Plug & Plays in hand and I have SAS to thank the shit out of,as the benefits are offa the fucking chart. Have been handing them out to others,so they can easily kiss/nestle 75A-Max. The Rancher's 5.56 throat is wayyyyyyy too long for a Plug & Play 75 'max kiss and it is farrrrrrrr and away the most Linda Lovelace of my herd. The P&P's rock,the 5.56 "throating' would make Roy Weatherby fucking blush +P.(grin)

The astute will follow suit with the S/S 223 Compact,go P&P,eek the Boyd's,re-spring the trigger,lose the blade and have their cake and eat it too. MQ Fixed Fucker being a given and an EGW inclined rail,do not suck.

I had it all apart last night,doing the chamber,stock,etc mod(s),as well as yarding the scope off,so I could reach the chamber with a round chain file.(grin) Bolted the bitch back together,torquing the rings with a bar wrench and bloody-knuckled the stock fasteners which meat mettle. Pun be intended.

Flat fucking worked shit over this morning,out to pretty fucking stupid far and in building winds. Later shot paper with it and zero was DEAD nuts the fuck on(which was a given,due the alternate zipcode POA/POI interactions).

Just do it.................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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I actually UNbedded it,by hogging out the stock to center the blocks.

It is shooting good enough and is AMAZINGLY consistent,in being taken apart/reassembled and holding onto POA/POI...that I'm not touching shit.(grin)

Little fucker is a wicked mean bastard...................
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Good to know. Mine is uber-finicky to action hardware torque, maybe due to the way I captured/bedded the barrel.

Cracked the trigger guard today.
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Switched back to the milk-jug where I had the receiver captured and not the barrel (white epoxy near the lug). Fixes the flop.

 

Rolltide

rimfiretactical.com
Dec 15, 2007
1,206
18
So, I stopped by a local shop to kill a few minutes before my next meeting and found out that the Ruger folks were there pushing their brand. Sale prices were good, so I picked a SS RAR .223 up.

You guys....
 

athhud

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Oct 21, 2008
308
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AL
I'm staying out of the gun shops for that very reason. Got too many irons in the fire as it is, but I know I won't miss a chance to take on another, if oppurtunity strikes....
 

Lineman

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2010
1,148
33
VA
So what's the preferred model? Boyds a given.

Thinking either Predator or Compact. Not sure if I want to go as short as 16".
 

Big Stick

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Classic on mine.

The S/S Compact is THE way to fly. It wears the best throat and is of course S/S.

Win/win..............
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Got the new trigger guard from Boyd's last week, and put a stainless washer under it. Also tried RL15 with good results, but the way I captured the barrel shank made the works sensitive to action screw tightness. Need to Dremel the shank portion out and re-test.

In the meantime, I put the milk-jug back on to shoot some RL15. Top target was the first 3-shots at 100y with no wind. Bottom target was 5-shots with 8-o'clock wind gusts.

Last pic was 490y. Held 0.5 mil into the wind for the first 5-shots and was lucky to be on steel. Need to run that load at longer distances, hopefully with less wind. Other than the one dropped shot by me at 490y, I'm happy with RL15 thus far.



 

Feral

Active member
Jul 28, 2010
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Lots of vertical @ 490..
Maybe have Rick cumugulia school ya up on how to do a ladder test..

>grin<
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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I think Ric has ditched his ladders in favor of finding which bullet penetrates ram horns the best:grin: Now that you mention it, I don't recall seeing any of his escapades online lately. That Josh cyber-bullied him?

Need to check my "notes" but ES was extremely low with those strings of RL15 at 25gr. At 490y, those top 4-shots had less than 4" of vertical in the wind. Not sure about the dropped shot though. Still not too shabby for the RAR milk-jug.

That shooting area can be a mind-fuck as we've had impacts land opposite of the wind direction (swirls around behind the shooter). Its near the end of a big valley (bottom) but with wind often going uphill from the coast. After those 5-shots, the wind was horrendous with the late afternoon thermals. I should have waited a bit for the dead calm but was running out of time.
 

Big Stick

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Will try to do some serious Lion Testing on the next pass and love mine up,to see how it responds.

Though they ain't nothing that's gonna escape it now.........................
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Last session was using the milk-jug, 75 AMAX & RL15.

Went back to the Boyd's today, but first Dremel-ed away the nut/shank bedding epoxy from the plywood. Now, only the forward portion of the receiver is bedded. It all jelled today. Hitting that 12" plate at 490y is almost too easy. Only went to 611y, but POI matched POA. Have 21+ mils remaining in the Super Bird 10x.

More research to come:grin:





 

Feral

Active member
Jul 28, 2010
34
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That looks great 4th point..
Shot 75 A-max's the other day in 10-15 mph gusting wind at 100 and netted .961" for five shots in my lil' compact..
25 grs. of H335/400's/IVI once fired brass/moly/kiss did the trick..
Scoped with a 6X36 lupy..
Only mods were to bend the rubber like forearm for barrel clearance and re-spring the trigger..
I would give Rl-15 a try but only have 3# of it and have over 18# of H335..
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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I would have stuck with H335 but my rifle was a touch finicky at the velocities I wanted. It settled down with RL15 but its tough getting much in the case! And it doesn't throw nearly as well.
 

Big Stick

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Nigger Buggy is gunning 10x in his and it do rather nice thangs.

I'm leaning purty hard on LeverEvolution in mine with 68 BTHP Hornie's,because they'll kiss in the Plug & Plays.

It reliably do shit...that it prolly shouldn't...............
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Brazo,

I can't help in terms of best throwers. I have a Horny on my progressive and a couple of Lees that are set and forget. The Lees throw ball dead nuts. The Horny just sees pistol powder. Neither thrower is dead nuts with stick powder.

Jason
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
Just stocked up for some springtime fun with the 223 RAR... RL15 (8lbs), primers (2300), and 75 AMAX (2800):grin:

Brownells has 6-packs of 75 AMAX in-stock, with free shipping.
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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The 223 RAR has FAR exceeded my expectations.

The only problem I see is keeping it fed. Need at least 100 or 200 rounds per person for longrange plinking... after they tire of their heavy recoiling rifles :grin:

My press is going to get worn out.
 

Big Stick

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There was a time when a guy hadta conduct business,on the otherside of the fence...because everything was UKD. The key to connecting was good boolits,at great speeds and range guesstimation.

Now one can KNOW and do shit with a chambering of far lesser capacity,at a much higher connect percentage. Win/win.

The Anschutz Chronicles,connecting dots like few others....................
 

Brazo

Well-known member
Mar 29, 2013
525
3
The Keystone State
4th_point said:
Brazo,

I can't help in terms of best throwers. I have a Horny on my progressive and a couple of Lees that are set and forget. The Lees throw ball dead nuts. The Horny just sees pistol powder. Neither thrower is dead nuts with stick powder.

Jason
The perfect powder measure from Lee? Thanks
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Yep. The last one I got is dead-nuts with H335 and doesn't leak. If you get a leaker, supposedly lapping compound will custom fit the cones. Remove any flashing/parting-lines first.
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Did a little more testing with the RAR 223. Plinking rocks and such at 1300+ yards was a hoot. With no wind it was almost too easy.

Wasn't sure how the 75gr AMAX would handle the ~1340fps transition, but it was fine.

Only set one target, at 890y. Never did a tall target test so it was good to see the 10x MQ track on steel at distance. Started at 7.9 mils on the erector, and was hitting high. Dropped two clicks, and was hitting low. Should have gone back up one, but kept shooting. Held one football into the wind. Not every shot was on steel due to shooter error, but hits were much more frequent than misses.

Pretty dang happy with the RAR and 75gr AMAX at distance, with minimal recoil :grin:



 

16Bore

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2010
3,272
1
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.2 mil = 6-1/2" @ 900. I'd say it's tracking right if that's a 12" plate. Shooting a little up hill?
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Yep... 12"x12" plate. Leica inclinometer read 1-degree shooting from the target back to the firing position. I was surprised how well the little 75gr AMAX rang the steel at 890y.

Did you put a MQ on your T3? How's it working out?
 

16Bore

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2010
3,272
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Yup, its ridiculous. Picked up a new seater so haven't monkeyed with anything other than the current crop of 50's I have.

 

tnv

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2007
726
12
TN
Big Stick said:
My preference is to operate within the realm of reason and Tikka cain't make that cut............
If you can look past a long action, I've found no other action that feeds as smooth, ejects with authority and has a great trigger out of the box. One thing I don't agree with is them going from an 8 twist to a 10 twist in .223.
 

16Bore

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2010
3,272
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Coupla turns off the trigger, slap on a scope, pop off the shroud, 15 minutes with a soldering iron on the grip, kiss your bullet of choice. Mags suck ass for 75's, but that's fixable. LA is handy for ring spacing, especially with 'bored Talley's.

Remmies still do the heavy lifting for me though.
 

Big Stick

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Sadly,I've shot more Tikkas,than folks who actually LIKE the fucking things.

Pass the RAR Plug & Play..............
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Four of the Finnish Tikklers I owned had really good triggers. One SL had some creep, but I never did anything other than turn the set screw all the way out on any of them. All shot lights out. Three were 300 magnums and the luggette was never an issue. I shot the shit out of two of those 300 rifles.

The RAR with blade removed and wimp spring is pretty dang good... comparable to a T3 trigger. The Timney in my RAR is fantastic, and down to ounces although they advertise 1.5#. Never tried a T3 with a replacement spring though.
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
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Been shopping for aftermarket T3 shrouds for a couple friends. They bought Tikklers based on my luck but I've been having some doubts about stray gas in the left lug raceway. Not sure an alloy shroud offers anything other than material upgrade.

Also just learned of a local fella that recently blew a primer in his T3. Got hot gas and a small piece of metal in his face. Luckily, no serious injuries. He wears prescription glasses so that might have helped.

So the question is whether there is a metal shroud available that baffles the T3 left lug raceway, or if I just buy their rifles so they can get something else. I'd feel responsible if one of them got hot gas or metal in their face, or worse.
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
835
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Oregon
The dude that got hot gas in his face from the blown primer in his T3 goes by Woodworker74 at the iFish forum. He sent me the PM below and doesn't mind if I share it...

"Hi Jason,
It was certainly a scarier experience after I realized what had happened than it was during the event. I am a right handed shooter, shooting a right handed action. The metal got me about an inch above the lip on my right hand side. It was little more than a pin *****'s worth of blood. I was wearing my everyday prescription glasses. The bolt shroud looks to be completely intact, although I haven't disassembled the bolt yet. I have looked at the replacement shrouds from Mountaintactical. I actually already purchased their stainless recoil lug after seeing the effects that a few rounds had on the aluminum lug.

Matt"
 

Big Stick

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Tasco sells alotta scopes too,but that ain't much to swoon either.(grin)

Joe Average ain't a barometer of much and assuredly not rifles..............
 

Big Stick

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Not everyone savvies twist,throat and COAL...which is THE most blatant of understatements and it is more often than not funnier than fuck,to be "enlightened" as to how/why someone pulls the trigger on sumptin'.

Perhaps only optics,gets funnier than that.

Never been tough to cypher,who shoots more than a smidge..............
 

16Bore

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Feb 11, 2010
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Not sure on the other calibers, I know the 30-06 throat was deep. 1:8 223 kisses 75 Amax at 2.448, but the box does suck.
 

Big Stick

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Fairly revealing,when both the 223 and '06 are total busts...while being the same receiver.

Though in fairness,Tikka don't get anything right.............
 

Big Stick

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I've never Clover Leafed a Critter,but have shot the fucking bejeezus outta RAR's to the 1400yd line...and they's a well camo'd Sleeper of the highest magnitude.

If Tikka changed everything they did,then one day they just might have sumptin'..............
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
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Should be a great day for shooting on the coast, warm and dry. Got the 223 RAR and a pile of ammo. Buds have their Tikkler and Sako rifles... a 270 and a couple of 7RM. The poor little RAR against the Finns, out to 600y!

I loaded extra, extra 223 ammo last night, as I have a feeling the RAR will be getting a heavy workout as shoulders and egos get tender:grin:
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Stick,

Any idea how the throats are on the RAR in 243 and 7-08? I could see having one or both. I thought I read that mags are 2.85".

Jason
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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I'm liking that 243 RAR melding.

The 223 RAR got a good workout yesterday, but the 7-08 Montucky stole the show out to 610y. Just couldn't miss at 490y. Good performance from the Finnish Wonders, but the Montucky was the most consistent performer, round-after-round.

 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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The CL shooter was using a plywood Sako 85 in 7RM and Leupo 3-9x50 LRD. He's been shooting at formal gun clubs and having problems getting consistent groups at 100y on his own from a bench. We took him out to the coastrange and got his zero set at 100y for the 150 CL, and ran shots over the chrono. It was his first time shooting from prone. Then we had him shoot at 320 yards.

That plywood was like a battering ram on his shoulder, and the trigger could lift a boat anchor but he got the hang of it. I'd say he did pretty dang well for the day.

 

Big Stick

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Have shot a bajillion C/L's outta various platforms and often to form cases. Precision was never an issue,but Ping Pong Ball BC's was/is.

Can he taste a boolit/glass swap yet?!?............(grin)
 

4th_point

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He's just getting a taste for it but had a good time flinging those ping-pong balls. I think he'll only do better once he lowers that trigger pull.

The 270W Tikkler shooter is ready to upgrade from ping-pongs and LRD :grin:
 

16Bore

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2010
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Those 150 ABLRs weren't bad at a .543 or 135 SMk's on the cheap. Not sure I'd use either on groceries though.
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Took the plywood Boyd's off, and put the milk-jug back on the 223 RAR for some more evaluation.

First five at 100 yards were touching, but needed scope adjustment for correct zero. Had twelve rounds left and shot them at 460 yards. First three at 460 had two close and one to the left. Ended up with eight shots with correct elevation (O's in the pic). I dropped four shots (X's in the pic). Was holding 1-mil into the wind, which was a touch too much and put me on the left side of the steel, but for the sake of evaluating the rifle I kept shooting with 1-mil hold.

Rifle, scope, stock, and load seem sound. Just need some shooting skill:grin: . No big surprise as the RAR has done well with milk-jug and plywood. Heck of a rifle for low bucks.

75gr AMAX
25gr RL15
2900 fps







 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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I'm going thru 100-200 rounds a week. Not a ton, but reloadering gets old... I'd rather be shooting. A marathon reloading session is a good idea.
 

4th_point

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2013
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Had a hell of a good time yesterday shooting with the Ping Pong Gang at 100, 200, 320, 430, and 460 yards with a 270 RAR, 270 Tikkler, and 7RM Sako. The Gang shot Fusions, Rem CL, and Horny Whitetail... with dots and duplex... no exposed turrets.

At 460 yards, the conditions made the Ping Pong Gang hold in-between their dotz at some guessed distance into the wind. The "reference" was, "Hold on the bush to the left of the target." :grin:

Recoil from those rifles took their toll as well from prone.

The 223 RAR & 75 AMAX with trajectory similar to the Ping Pong Gang, however stole the show out to 1165 yards with the 10x MQ. Precise elevation dialed, it was easy to tell them to hold a football on the target.

Holding the mil football ON THE TARGET and focusing on that football/target overlay was much easier mentally, than holding in-between two LRD dots somewhere on an adjacent tree at some guessed distance. I don't think they realized that they were no longer focusing on the target, and had no gauge of how stable their hold was.

They all did suprisingly well with their dotz and ping pong balls. But they all shot GREAT with the 223 RAR and 75 AMAX. I think I fired 5 rounds yesterday, and let them have all the fun :grin:
 

12ozkurl

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2015
70
0
What rings and bases are you running with these? I just picked up a RAR in 223, Going to run a 1" 3x9x40 on it.
 

12ozkurl

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Apr 25, 2015
70
0
Well, here's the deal. I already have several 1" scopes laying around. I am not going to throw them away, so I might as well use them. I keep hearing how nice these RAR's are. I found one at a really good price, so I thought I could have a nice truck gun without a whole lot of jack invested. And if some dickhead steals it out of my truck I am not out my Kimber Montana or some of my other really nice rifles with higher priced scopes.

We have some thieving bastards here. Hell I once had someone steal my bearing buddies off of my boat trailer while I was out fishing. Or the cheesedicks who broke into my truck, stole my stereo in my driveway on Christmas eve. Now both of them cum guzzlers had to be pretty low life bastards.

So, I figure it is just a matter of time before someone swipes a rifle while I am out hunting.
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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It takes only 300 Clams,to ring the optics bell.

NOBODY is tough enough to gun a Fixed Fucker and say..."I prefer a 1" 3-9x".

Hint.

Big Yella isn't gonna take someone slurking around in the driveway and I very often have $20,000+ worth of gear locked up in my crummy,on a typical Cast & Blast. Rifles,pistols,cameras,spotter,laser,yada,yada.

I'd not schlep shit,as a move to "help" anything................
 

16Bore

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2010
3,272
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VXII 3x9 on a walnut stocked 270 with Partitions is the ticket. That way you have all your crap confined to one rig....
 

GansettX

Active member
Feb 5, 2015
27
0
WV
Try telling this 8 yr old that a 6x super chicken isn't the way to go on a RAR .223



Lead them to water and they walk away parched...
 

Big Stick

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I believe (3) more 6x Fixed fuckers will hit the porch on this pass.

Be crowdin' 50 of 'em,before too long..................
 

Ochoco

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
3,313
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CO
If it was anybody but you, I'd say your scopes are exceeding the wares to mount them on........
 

12ozkurl

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2015
70
0
I DON'T GET IT!

I went out today, shot my RAR and my Montana, both 223. Using Lever, win brass and wsr primers. They both seem to hate Horny 68 and 75gr hpbt's. They both shoot my 50 VMAX and 55 SBT"S along with Sierra 55 BK's and55 Nosler BT's around MOA or better..

I started with a clean barrel on the RAR, shot 30 Sierra 55BK's to lay a good coat of moly. The Montucky already has a couple hundred molys down it's pipe. Neither wanted to group the 68 or the 75's less than 4-6 inch groups at 100.

Only thing I did to the RAR was make sure the barrel was free floated. I had to take a small amount off the tupperwear stocks tip, and lighted up the trigger to 3 lbs. Going to try again with either Varget or RL15 when I get my next chance.

These two shot with the lighter bullets.



This shot with the heavier HPBT's



you get the idea from these couple of pics.
 

12ozkurl

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Apr 25, 2015
70
0
I don't have a chrony right now. I was using Lever, 26.0, 26.3, and 26.6 grs with a moly 75 HPBT.
 

12ozkurl

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2015
70
0
Mechanical? Like bad bedding, action stressed, scope or mounts bad? Both rifles shoot the lighter bullets though.

I noticed that the 68 and 75's have the same dimensions. I am guessing one has 7 grains more lead core.
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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The 68 Hornie and 75,are close in their dimensioning.

Mechanics certainly encompass all issues you cite,amongst others.

Start At The Fucking Start..................
 

bobnob

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2016
566
4
NSW, Australia
Hello fellas I am new here mainly 'cause I followed Big Stick and one or two other blokes over looking for info; how to make the most of the 223 RAR Compact.

Couple of questions - and I'm happy to be howled down with derisive laughter but - has anyone tried to mod the 308-length mag to shoot the 223s at a longer OAL?

Also, does the 75g Hornie BTSP go ok in the OEM mag?

Last, SAS, want an export partner for those Plug N Plays when you have met demand up there?

Edited to add: I have a Boyds on order, happy to ditch the trigger blade, but SWFA scopes can't be had for love nor money down here.
 

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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The 75BTHP is a nice OEM fit in the 223's chamber,but of course is a long leap in the 5.56 version.

I've not tried a 308 mag and can't see it being viable,but it's worth a shot if only to see exactly what the fuck.

Multiple Down Under folks are scoring Fixed Fucker glass,though I don't know the particulars on how they are arranging same.............
 

4th_point

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Dec 4, 2013
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Oregon
bobnob said:
Couple of questions - and I'm happy to be howled down with derisive laughter but - has anyone tried to mod the 308-length mag to shoot the 223s at a longer OAL?
You can mod the factory mag that came with the 223. I'm pretty sure there are pics in this thread.
 

bobnob

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2016
566
4
NSW, Australia
Thanks 4P yes I read the whole read with interest, particularly those posts.

Until I get a look at the 308 magazine I'll assume it's too roomy for accommodating the 223 cartridges but thought it was worth asking. My RAR and Boyds should arrive next week (probably my first day back at work after two weeks off!)

Ta.
 

bobnob

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2016
566
4
NSW, Australia
Well it works.The RAR Compact arrived today - early - and I shot it stock out of the box.

One round at 60y gave me a zero then two x three shot groups at 125y went in order 1.5 inches then 0.55 inch.

I was just using some left over loads from my old L46 which were ADI brass, 50g Hornady SPs using H4895.

A shocking dust storm then blew in so I packed up and came back to the house. In fact it was 38 dec Celsius and blowing 20 to 30 kph wind which makes the rifle look better still (even if the operator is a sh!t shot).

Pretty happy with the performance out of the box. The stock is a little too close on the left side, and the trigger is too creepy and heavy. And at present its only wearing Leupy alloy rings and a Revolution 2-7x33. The scope I can live with I think but the mounts need replacing. Suggestions there? Thinking Warne Maxima permanent...

Waiting on some 68 and 75g Hdy BTSP to come in as well as the Boyds. Have some 53g Vmax and Sierra 65g GKs to try in the meantime. That trigger needs the treatment too.
 

Big Stick

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The trigger is easy. Toss the blade and re-spring if you want more.

I couldn't do the Redfield.

1" glass would be 6x42 Reupold............
 

bobnob

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Point taken re the scope.

Here's a stump photo so you all can have a laugh at my expense...



The sh1t mounts will go anyway as I'd like to get the scope down a little lower.
 

bobnob

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Have got these Hornady 68 and 75g BTHPs arriving any day now (had to have them brought in). Want to get top velocities if possible with the same level of accuracy I've been getting with the 65g Sierras.

Anyone got some good load suggestions using either the Hodgdon Extreme powders (ie H4895, 322 or Varget) or alternatively I can get the Alliant Reloder series powders or Win powders?

Am I going to be able to get these suckers out far enough to kiss the lands in the OEM magazine?
 

Big Stick

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Mags run the gamut in their latitude.

'4895 does nice thangs,as per the choices offered.

An OEM smooch ain't likely...................
 

4th_point

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bobnob said:
Am I going to be able to get these suckers out far enough to kiss the lands in the OEM magazine?
Just fill the partitions with epoxy putty, then router the fucker to the desired depth (COAL). It's easy.



 

Big Stick

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The guy I talked to at MDT,wasn't bluffin'. Their chassis and 10rd mags would make THE RAR match.

Get your Feesh Riggin' sorted the fuck out,for morning................
 

Shooter71

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Buddy's rar.223 is getting a hair over 2700 with 24.0 of lever and 75bthp kissed in a modded mag, but occasional popped primer. Backed down to 25.5, 25.7.
 

Big Stick

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Shooter71 said:
Buddy's rar.223 is getting a hair over 2700 with 24.0 of lever and 75bthp kissed in a modded mag, but occasional popped primer. Backed down to 25.5, 25.7.
Hard to back down to 25.5grs,let alone 25.7...with a 24gr start.(grin)

2700fps is exceedingly slow and headspace is most likely the "pressure" issue.

Lever makes far better speeds than that,in a 16" Krunchenticker and I've seen it whistled through a goodly herd of modest lengthed spouts...................
 

Shooter71

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Haha, must have been thinking about a different one, 23.7. That was with virgin lapua and bullet seated long for a firm close. 25gr was good for 2850 but the primers look like a Remington with a big pin hole. He's new to reloading so might go over the process again. My palmetto barrel takes 26 happily.
 

Lineman

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Mine's popping primers at 24.5 '335 in virgin Lapua.

Thinking it's the sloppy pin fit though.
 

4th_point

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What primers?

I pierced a few CCI 400's with H335 at 2900-ish with the 75 AMAX. No problems with the Rem 7-1/2.
 

Big Stick

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I shoot 400's in everything and they are easily my favorite Small Rifle primer.

Sloppy pin fit do NO favors,anywhere...................
 

Lineman

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4th_point said:
What primers?

I pierced a few CCI 400's with H335 at 2900-ish with the 75 AMAX. No problems with the Rem 7-1/2.
400s.

Backed off to about 2675 with only mild cratering now in virgins.
 

Big Stick

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Shoulda took some pics of the before/after of the last herd of bolts that got THE cure.

Fucking crazy...the difference it makes.

I've zero interest in gunning CCI 34 or 41's either..................(grin)
 

bobnob

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Mine pierces primers with 25-and-a-bit grains (EDIT I MEANT 24+ GRAINS) of H4895 for about 2760fps with the BTHP. I'm sure its the sloppy firing pin hole. There's a large protrusion around the primer strike that's clearly poured back around the pin into the hole.

Will get it bushed; just modded the mag and have 75 Amaxes inbound so I may as well get optimum speeds.

Stick and others what speed with the Amax would be a reasonable target with the SAAMI 223 in the RAR Compact, with H4895?
 

Big Stick

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In my 18" BHW Krunchenticker Middie fed with ASC 10-rounders,I shot 25.3grs of H4895 with the 75BTHP Hornie,for right at 2800fps. Load density is prolly compressed.(grin) ES/SD was rather nice and if I couldn't get Lever or '335,that'd be the route I'd go.

A-Max in window'd P-Mags or in ASC's,lost 20fps under a like charge and are 2780fps...due to less bearing surface.

I shot that load in my RAR Rancher,but don't see where I wrote down the velocity,though I know I surely did somewhere. Of all the RAR 223's/5.56's flying around here,sloppy pins haven't been an issue and they are flogged upon often.

The Piece is awaiting a LSS MDT chassis for his(S/S Compact 223) and is gonna feed it with MDT Herd clips,which sure ain't a bad way to fly. 'Horn rings,Magpul CTR,3/4" riser,'Horn rings and 6x MQ with Lever' fueled 75A-Max in Lapooey brass. I think planes will prolly still fly,so it should be here this week.

Has anyone checked headspace on their Virgin poke,to CONFIRM just what in the fuck is transpiring?!?

Scotch Tape is cheap................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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The 75HPBT will make more pressure at like charge weight,but I don't have a rifle that's padded away from it's A-Max charge...to shoot that boolit.

Was flingin' 105A-Max,105 Hornie HPBT and 105 Booger HighBirds yesterday in my Heavy 270 as an extrapolation curiosity,to see what needed more what,to do the deal(pounding 900yd steel in a goodly breeze),with like powder charge of 24.6grs of '335 and Smooches across the board.

Such things make the Hornie HPBT more and more MAGNIFICENT.................(grin)
 

bobnob

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Big Stick said:
Has anyone checked headspace on their Virgin poke,to CONFIRM just what in the fuck is transpiring?!?

Scotch Tape is cheap................(grin)
At prez I am neck sizing my formed brass and then not sizing all the neck at that.

The scotch tape reference has me scratching my head sorry mate. :/

Thanks for the info above.

Bob
 

Big Stick

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The tape replicates a feeler gauge and will letcha' know where you stand,in regards to headspace upon Virgins. Simply size half a neck or so(to true up concentricity) and affix a layer of tape on the casehead,then chamber the Virgin empty. Keep adding tape until you FEEL headspace,then simply measure the thickness,to know how you set.

(4) layers of masking tape is the record,on Virgins entering a SAAMI chamber................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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Might scare yourself too.(grin)

OEM chambers and Virgins,is routinely a sloppy Fuck Show...thus the perpetual impetus to drive a Virgin false-shoulder outta da' gate.................
 

Lineman

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I'll check same Thursday morning...

Curious though, wouldn't a hard kiss negate headspace issues regarding the cratering problem?
 

Big Stick

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A Smooch is certainly headspace assist,but no false-shoulder in it's inherent abilities.

Both in conjunction,is where I always want to be operating..............
 

Lineman

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Blew another primer this morning, at a soft charge.

Greg said he'd bush it for me if he could, but wasn't sure as he'd never had one in. Guess I'll send it off Monday and see.
 

bobnob

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LM are the primers "blowing" ie around the edges of the primer, or are they piercing where the pin strikes?

Trying the masking tape / feeler gauge shortly. Have a day off and have 75g Amax load development to do...
 

Lineman

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bobnob said:
LM are the primers "blowing" ie around the edges of the primer, or are they piercing where the pin strikes?

Trying the masking tape / feeler gauge shortly. Have a day off and have 75g Amax load development to do...
Everything craters and about 1 out of 20 will pierce. Guess I shouldn't call them 'blown'.
 

bobnob

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Sounds much like what I have mate.

Stick's prompt above has me thinking though whether the pierced ones were only with virgin brass. I reckon they were because it was only ever during load workups.

Will report back before day's end what I find with the headspace check.
 

bobnob

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Big Stick said:
Might scare yourself too.(grin)

.
Trying to work out how alarmed I should be...

Length of a Virgin case was 1.760.

Length with enough tape on it before it got a nice feel was 1.767.

I kept putting tape on until it was REALLY hard to close and got to 1.796.

What's that tell me? How sloppy is sloppy?

Bob
 

Lineman

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In all seriousness, numbers have a tendency to make me skullfuck shit to death.

If I can get by with feel instead of a hard number I will, if that makes sense.
 

Big Stick

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bobnob said:
Big Stick said:
Might scare yourself too.(grin)

.
Trying to work out how alarmed I should be...

Length of a Virgin case was 1.760.

Length with enough tape on it before it got a nice feel was 1.767.

I kept putting tape on until it was REALLY hard to close and got to 1.796.

What's that tell me? How sloppy is sloppy?

Bob
Toldjaso.(grin)

Now KEY is,to feel headspace on the very first fucking shot and all following.

To extrapolate,now do likewise with a fired case and see how much it takes to replicate FEELING headspace...as that difference from a Virgin, is how/why you should be concerned.

Nothin' to it................
 

bobnob

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Big Stick said:
Toldjaso.(grin)
Yep there's no doubt aboutcha; you'd be a bloody handy bloke to have around the camp!

Saved me a few bob on having the bolt bushed when it didn't need it... thanks a bunch.
 

bobnob

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For the sake of the thread I just test fired my first 75g Amaxes through the rifle having modded the mag as per the 4th Point Method.

Using virgin brass, a 2.433" oal and 24.2g of H4895 I averaged 2775fps and yes you guessed it, blew a primer on one of the three shots I fired. Group was pleasing however at 0.85" at 125y.

Need to put a false shoulder on this new brass... what's the easiest way to do it? The next bigger calibre expander I have is .257...
 

bobnob

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Just went back and loaded 6 identically to the load that pierced a primer earlier today, only difference was I used fired/formed brass this time, neck sized only.

Problem apparently solved; no cratering, no holed primers. Speed and accuracy was all the same.

Amazing how much you THINK you know...
 

16Bore

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Funny how I size to the gauge and it feels the same. Course I remove the firing pin for "better" feel and shoot a Tikka.....and a 270.

Goddamn I'll never get it right.

Anyone got a spare Tasco and See-Thru's for sale?
 

Lineman

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bobnob said:
Just went back and loaded 6 identically to the load that pierced a primer earlier today, only difference was I used fired/formed brass this time, neck sized only.

Problem apparently solved; no cratering, no holed primers. Speed and accuracy was all the same.

Amazing how much you THINK you know...
I haven't pierced any in formed brass in mine, but still get mild cratering.
 

Big Stick

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Finite headspace CONTROL,is one of the great benefits of Reloading and one of the facets folks are quick to overlook and fuck up entirely.

if you control headspace and arrange a Smooch,shit ever can't NOT dazzle..............
 

Big Stick

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16Bore said:
Funny how I size to the gauge and it feels the same. Course I remove the firing pin for "better" feel and shoot a Tikka.....and a 270.

Goddamn I'll never get it right.

Anyone got a spare Tasco and See-Thru's for sale?
In fairness,you are better than most at fucking up easy shit.

You need to take more notes and apply same.

Hint..................
 

Big Stick

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Lotsa folks that don't address headspace control on shot (1),see "pressure" where there ain't none and then their shit "doesn't shoot".

All easy to see...1000's of miles away.

Literally.....................(grin)
 

16Bore

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You're a mean fucker.............but correct, again. Ass.

At least gimme a little credit for getting the 7RM right on the first stroke. I mean, it's only been done a gillion times. But now I'm bored, clays and peestols are starting to rear their ugly heads.........again
 

Big Stick

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I get to see/hear it ALL and folks line up around the block to "tell" me things.

Funny how it NEVER goes the way they "thought".

Ever.................
 

Brazo

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bobnob said:
For the sake of the thread I just test fired my first 75g Amaxes through the rifle having modded the mag as per the 4th Point Method.

Using virgin brass, a 2.433" oal and 24.2g of H4895 I averaged 2775fps and yes you guessed it, blew a primer on one of the three shots I fired. Group was pleasing however at 0.85" at 125y.

Need to put a false shoulder on this new brass... what's the easiest way to do it? The next bigger calibre expander I have is .257...
I've never used them but these might work.

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-amp-expander-mandrels/sinclair-generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx

Cant get the bottom link to work, just copy and paste it into your browser.

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-amp-expander-mandrels/sinclair-expander-mandrel-oversized-prod33134.aspx?avs%7cManufacturer_1=SINCLAIR+INTERNATIONAL
 

bobnob

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Thanks I will look.

In the meantime I'll see if using a .257 expander works for me.

PITA that brand new brass needs an extra step of preparation however obviously worth it.
 

Big Stick

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A tapered expander,run shy of balls deep,will work. A 270 FL Sizer being better yet.

You'll quickly begin to appreciate the increase in Precision,safety and brass life..............(grin)
 

J-Hon

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Sorta off topic, but found any good way to 'feel' headspace on gas guns? I never felt like I had a great setup there.....
 

Big Stick

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Best not to get greedy there,due mechanical camming both in and out of battery,along with the propensity for chambers to get dirty and essentially change headspace.

I know how much buffer spring yam I like to give,as a feel for brass sizing,but that's hard to quantify in words. One doesn't want to fight things into or out of battery.

Do as I say...not as I do..............(grin)
 

Rogue

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In 223, I use a full length sizer on my gas guns and comp dies on my bolt guns.

The good ammo still runs in most of the gas guns, but I tend to load them for bulk so they can be shot in any of the AR's.

I don't like getting to greedy for speed in the AR's either. They do tend start letting loose of parts...
 

Big Stick

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On O/F Bulk stuff new to me,I'll SB size to preclude things being partly into battery,as opposed to all the way. Especially for "lesser" brass,slated to splash over gunwales.

On Commercial Virgins,I'll catch but 90% of the neck or so,to improve concentricity and uniform neck tension. After being fired I'll size as little as possible and having "Utility" Ammo is easiest,when a guy is shooting better barrels(not so sloppy chamber dimensioning).

No matter what the chambering/platform,I'm at ease in eeking the goody,but have never been very greedy..............